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Announcement from PRODOS, the THINKER TO THINKER™ blog system administrator.

I have de-activated

My reason for doing so is that, in my judgement, this blog …

  • has been advocating racialist policies (please note, I distinguish between “racialist” and “racist”)
  • andis therefore in breach of THINKER TO THINKER™ positions and policies
  • andincompatible with Capitalist Ideals.

Notification of my decision to de-activate this blog – along with linksto my explanatory notes- as well as public debate of this issue can be found HERE.

If you have questions or comments regarding this matter you can email me HERE or leave a comment HERE.

– – – –

Some of the other blogs and forums which have been following this issue at various stages include:

Please note, the author of thispost is PRODOS (not Mikko Ellila).

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Summa summarum

Heitänpä tähän nyt vielä kertauksena tiivistelmän siitä, miksi tämä blogi a) on joutunut viime aikoina muun blogosfäärin varsinekstensiivisen huomion kohteeksi ja b) lakkautetaan lähiaikoina (la 21.7.) serverin omistajan toimesta.

Prodos Marinakis, thinkertothinker-blogipalvelun ylläpitäjä

Alkuperäinen viestini Prodokselle:

I am writing to you because I received a letter from [a Finnish] municipal police department saying they want to interrogate me because of the anti-Muslim, pro-Israeli, pro-European, pro-American posts in my blog. According to the letter, I am suspected of “hate speech” merely because I have pointed out that Islam is a fascist ideology that advocates killing Jews, atheists, homosexuals etc.

I hope you will not submit under the yoke of censorship that the Muslims want to impose on us. Do not delete any of my blog posts without an explicit order from an Australian court of law. I am assuming your server is based in Australia and is therefore under Australian jurisdiction.

I live in Espoo, a suburban municipality in the Helsinki metropolitan area in Finland, and I am certain that the municipal police will never take this case to court in Australia. But they might send you some e-mail “politely” asking you to delete my blog. Don’t do this if you value freedom.

This is a very important symbolic case, the first of its kind in Finland. No one has ever been interrogated before in this country for blog posts criticising Islam. Probably thousands of people will be following this case already before I will visit the police station for the interrogation next Monday, because I have told about the ongoing police investigation to several other bloggers whose pages get thousands of visitors per day.

This is an extremely important case, a litmus test for the freedom of speech, a landmark case, a historical milestone.

The Finnish government is apparently trying to impose Chinese-style totalitarian censorship on the internet.

Mikko Ellilä

Forwardoin tämän myös Leonard Peikoffille, mutta saatuani sittemmin lisää tietoaminua koskevan tutkintapyynnön aiheesta jouduin kirjoittamaan Peikoffille allaolevanlisäselvityksen:

Dear Dr. Peikoff,

When I visited the police station for the interrogation, the detective questioning me said he does not actually suspect me of hate speech against Muslims, but against African immigrants. I had no way of knowing this when I posted my comment to you because the letter in which I was told to come to the police station for the interrogation said merely “you are suspected of hate speech on the basis of your blog posts, therefore you must visit the police station for questioning on Monday, May 7, 10 AM”, nothing else. There was absolutely no description of the grounds for my being a suspect, except the mention that the investigation is based on my blog posts in general.

I have written about the totalitarian nature of Islam in several dozen posts and about the high crime rates of African immigrants only in a couple of posts, so I couldn’t possibly expect to be accused of “hate speech” against black immigrants. The charge was that I was “preaching hatred” toward black people by quoting crime statistics published by the Ministry of Justice. This is totally ludicrous. I obviously did not blame blacks collectively for anything because it is self-evident that only individuals are responsible for their crimes. I was only discussing statistical correlations. Blacks commit more crimes than whites, just like men commit more crimes than women.

Mentioning this fact does not mean placing any collective guilt on anybody.

The person who had told the police to interrogate me was a government bureaucrat (“minority ombudsman”) named Mikko Puumalainen; he is generally known to have a very extreme political agenda that is in contradiction with the existing laws and the Constitution of the country and he is trying to use policemen as pawns in his game.

Mr. Puumalainen has said in numerous press statements and interviews that the publication of all opinions and information that “help maintain the current anti-immigrationist political atmosphere” (verbatim quote from public statements by Puumalainen) ought to be totally criminalised. In other words, he wants to change the political climate of the country by banning the publication of all opinions and facts that are not in line with his rose-coloured utopian view of immigrants.

In Nazi Germany, the first thing that Hitler did when he was given dictatorial powers in March 1933 was to ban all newspapers critical towards Nazism. Puumalainen wants to do the exact same thing. He explicitly says that my blog should not be allowed to exist because I am saying that African immigrants commit more crimes than the Finns do. This is a fact that I have demonstrated by quoting crime statistics published by the Ministry of Justice, but in the opinion of Mr. Puumalainen even objective facts can be “hate speech”.

This time he did not mention Islam in connection with these allegations of racism, but there was no way for me to know this before Friday evening (the interrogation was on Monday) because he repeatedly refused to specify his allegations and to email me the relevant material that he had sent to the police. I had to call him twice and email him twice before he mailed the material to me on Friday afternoon. This was the first time when I learned that I was accused of “hate speech” against Africans instead of Muslims.

I was able to obtain the material from him only after I notified him that I could sue him for failing to send me the relevant material because the police had explicitly asked me to comment on his allegations in written form, which I obviously could not do as long as I had not even seen the allegations in the first place.

Puumalainen undoubtedly committed a crime by acting like this.

In other words, a criminal bureaucrat is harassing me. Puumalainen is also seriously wasting taxpayer money by forcing the police to spend time reading my blog posts and discussing them with me, instead of trying to catch criminals.

Rapes are up by 64 % from last year, according to the official crime statistics that Puumalainen wants to make illegal. Puumalainen wants to stop people from knowing how many crimes are being committed, and by whom, i.e. by Finns or by immigrants.

I have mentioned in my blog that immigrants commit 20 (twenty) times more (as in, 2,000% more) acts of rape per capita than the Finns do, again by quoting crime statistics published by the Ministry of Justice. If this is “hate speech”, Puumalainen will have to sue the Ministry of Justice.

With the recent very large increase in the number of rapes, the police should allocate more resources to trying to catch those rapists, but no, Puumalainen wants the cops to spend time chatting with me instead.

Also, it is extremely important to understand that since this man has repeatedly and explicitly said in the media that all facts and opinions that “help maintain the current anti-immigrationist political atmosphere” ought to be totally criminalised, he obviously wants to make criticism of Islam illegal because the Muslims are immigrants, and if the Finns have a negative opinion of Muslims, they will not be in favour of open immigration from Africa and the Middle East.

He also systematically lies about the actual content of my blog posts in the allegations in his letter to the police. He says I am “comparing certain ethnic groups to animals” (verbatim quote from his letter to the police) which I have certainly never done. I said people in general are biological beings, evolutionary in nature, shaped by their genes, as opposed to created by a divine hand. In other words, I oppose creationism and other irrational, superstitious mumbo-jumbo. Puumalainen is saying that this means I think black people are subhuman. This is a flat-out lie. It never ceases to amaze me how people think they can get away with such absolutely obvious lies. Lying like this is utterly despicable.

Anyway, thank you for your interest Dr. Peikoff.


Mikko Ellilä

Lauantaina Australian aikaa eli tod.näk. perjantai-iltana Suomen aikaaserverin omistaja Prodos Marinakispoistaa minulta oikeudenpostata tänneja yleisöltämahdollisuuden jättää viestejä kommenttiosastoon. Vanhat viestit kuitenkinjäävät tänne arkistoon toistaiseksi.

Jos joku haluaa kommentoida postauksiani minulle jälkikäteen, kommentteja voi jättää mm. Uusi viesti-bloginpostauksien perään. Omistan nykyään ko. blogin, koska sen perustaja Väinö Valpas siirsi ylläpito-oikeudet minulle kuultuaan Prodoksen päätöksestädisabloida käyttäjätunnukseni thinkertothinker-palvelimella.Saatan myös julkaista Uusi viesti-blogissa joskus uusina postauksina parhaita paloja tästä blogista.

Annan lisäksi luvan kenelle tahansakopioida postauksiani sekä täältä thinkertothinker-palvelimelta että nykyisestä blogistani sillä ehdolla, että kirjoittajan nimi mainitaan.


Sanomattakin on selvää, että postauksistani ei saa siteerata yksittäisiä lauseita asiayhteydestä irroitettuna. Postaukseni(jakommenttiosastoon lukijoidenijättämiin viesteihinkirjoittamani vastaukset)ovat kokonaisuuksia, joiden merkitys on vahvasti kontekstisidonnainen.Jos olen esimerkiksi ironisesti sanonut “islam on rauhan uskonto”, tätä lausetta ei saa siteerata ilmanironisuuden selväksi tekevääkontekstia.

Myöskään ei pidä missään nimessä luulla minun olevan samaa mieltä kaikkien sellaisten tahojenkanssa, joita olen siteerannut tai linkittänyt. Jos omasta kannastani jonkin asian suhteen on epäselvyyttä, ottakaa yhteyttä em. Uusi viesti-blogin kautta.

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Tämä blogi pyörii serverillä, jonka omistaja, australiankreikkalainen Prodos Marinakis, on ilmoittanut aikovansadisablata käyttäjätunnuksenilauantaina 21. heinäkuuta. En siis voi enää kirjoittaa tänne lauantaina tai sen jälkeen. Myös kommentointi disablataan kokonaan. Uusia kommentteja ei siis voi kirjoittaa perjantain jälkeen.

Kumulatiivisista postauksista kaikki paitsi uusimmat on kopioitu talteen, mutta arkistossa on jotain teknistä häikkää. Kaikki viestit ovat sinänsä tallessa (lukuunottamatta muutamaa uusinta), mutta webbiarkisto ei vielä toimi kunnolla. Asia korjataan lähiaikoina.

Toistaiseksi postaukset kyllä näkyvät täälläkin, mutta pidemmän päälle ei voi luottaa Prodoksen haluun ylläpitää tämän blogin arkistoa.

Keskustelua asiasta Prodoksen blogista:

Mikko Ellilä Says:

July 14th, 2007 at 10:40 pm

I am also against “multiculturalism” – to the extent that it treats all customs and cultures as equally worthy or equally healthy for humanity and to the extent that it devalues such principles as individual rights, free trade, science and technology, pursuit of happiness, etc.

And this very point has indeed been the number one point in my blog.

But the racialist position is deep down dumb. It is moronic. It contributes nothing to the debate. Both racialists and racists seem to also be critical of multiculturalism. But the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.

I have thoroughly rebutted the racialist and the racist positions in my post titled:
“Are Blacks genetically LOWER in intelligence and
HIGHER in psychopathy than Whites?” @

Just because you don’t believe black people have a lower average IQ than white people, it doesn’t mean it’s “deep down dumb” and “moronic” to notice that race correlates statistically very strongly with e.g. crime rates.

And regarding Mikko, I remind readers that he claimed the earlier English translation of his Finnish article was “awful” and “misleading”. That it was a “babelfish” translation.

It was a very poor translation indeed. I am certain that any native speaker would agree that the translation provided later by myself was much better.

When he finally provided an authorised translation, we saw that he utterly misrepresented the facts.

Such as?

And with a bit of crude context-shifting he also claimed in the comments section @
… that he was “merely” making “observations” and not advocating racialist based policies.

There was no context-shifting. Facts are facts. The mere mention of the fact that men commit more crimes than women is not the same thing as advocating hatred of men or government policies against men.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for his position or his deceptive practices or his “too clever by half” tricks or his general arrogance.

Whatever. Apparently you are going to delete my blog on Sat July 21st because you said today Sat July 14th that you will give me seven days’ notice.

I have already copied most of my posts, but my archive isn’t fully functional yet. I expect to be able to publish a full archive on another website some time before next Saturday, but I hope you won’t delete my blog before Saturday even if the archive is up on another server e.g. on Wednesday, because I want to tell my readers in my last post where to find the archive, and where I will be blogging in the future.

I already have two other blogs but I haven’t decided yet where I am going to post next, and I have not written a farewell note to my thinkertothinker readers yet. I hope you will not use your admin functions to prevent me from writing that post. I am probably going to post it on Tuesday or Wednesday.

päivitys 15.7.: lisää keskustelua Prodoksen blogista

Mikko Ellilä Says:
July 15th, 2007 at 10:17 pm


July 14th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Mikko’s position, despite his use of terms such as “modern Western society” … “individualism” … “private property” … etc. is way off the mark.

What exactly makes you say that?

I don’t think you have been able to prove that my posts are somehow anti-reason or anti-capitalism.

I provided an extensive analysis and rebuttal of ALL his racialist premises and arguments in my post “Are Blacks genetically LOWER in intelligence and HIGHER in psychopathy than Whites?”, yet he hasn’t addressed any of them.

Why not?

Because you don’t differentiate between disagreements on facts (whether blacks are genetically lower in intelligence than whites) and disagreements on moral values (e.g. whether it’s OK to lynch blacks). I don’t think we actually disagree on moral values, but any refutation of your factual statements would be wholly redundant as long as you don’t see the difference between between facts and moral values.

When he claimed that the earlier English translation of his article was “awful” and “misleading” I waited for him to provide his own authorized translation. When he finally did so and we could all see that it was almost identical to the earlier non-authorized translation, he said nothing. Why not? And why did he claim the earlier translation was “awful” and “misleading”?

Everybody can see the earlier translation was very poor, and that the later translation was much better. If you disagree, ask the opinion of e.g. your wife if you’re not a native English speaker.

When I stated that I interpreted his article to be ADVOCACY in several areas – based on a racialist position – he DENIED this, claiming that he was “merely making an observation”. Another example of deception on his part.

On what basis do you submit that this was an act of deception?

And there have been other instances of Mikko context-shifting and slipping and sliding about.

Such as?

His racialist views may be barbaric,

Why, pray tell, would it be barbaric to mention the fact that black people commit more crimes than white people?

The KKK was NEVER – as Mikko deceptively suggests – a vigilante group concerned with maintaining law and order. It has always been pointed at intimidating or attacking Blacks and Jews and those who might side with them.

I was talking about vigilante groups in general and not just the KKK in particular, as a native speaker of English would have been able to gather from my expression “vigilante groups in the KKK vein”, but your statement that the KKK has never been a vigilante group concerned with maintaining law and order isn’t true because apart from the crimes they have committed against innocent people (crimes that I strongly condemn, of course) they have also hunted down rapists and murderers etc. and killed them in the belief that courts of law would have been too lenient on these criminals.

The mere mention of this historical fact does not constitute any form of advocacy of vigilantism.

Prodoksen vastaus tähän sisälsi varsin runsaasti fleimailua (olkinukkeilua, virheellisiä analogioita, adhominem-vittuilua jne.) ja kirjoitus- tai koodausvirheitä (osia Prodoksen omasta tekstistä oli esitetty minun repliikkieni osina), joten en viitsi kopioida sitä tänne.

Aion itse todennäköisesti kirjoitella lähiaikoina mm. Suomalian Sanomat-blogiin tai muihin monikulttuurisuuteen kriittisesti suhtautuviin blogeihin.

MielestäniProdos ei edelleenkään näe eroa arvoarvostelmien ja tosiasia-arvostelmien välillä, joten väittelyn jatkaminen on turhaa. Lopetan täällä bloggaamisen joka tapauksessa ensi lauantaihin mennessä, joten en viitsi enää selittäähänelle asioita rautalangasta vääntämällä.

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Octavius kirjoittaa SPR:stä:

Suomen Punainen Rutto
07.07.2007 – 20:40

Suomen Punainen Risti. SPR. Miten jokin niin yleishyödylliseltä ja yleisinhimilliseltä kuulostava järjestö voi olla niin tuhoisa? SPR on eturintamassa tuhoamassa Eurooppaa. Suomen Punainen Rutto järjesti mm. rahapulassaan aikoinaan tämän meille niin ah ihanan ja kaduille väreilyä säteilevän somalipopulaation. Viimeisin esimerkki tulee Ruotsista, joka alkaa olla tungokseen asti täynnä jätesäkki-ihmisiä Lähi-Idästä. Ruotsin SPR vastustaa jätesäkkien palauttamista Irakiin. Ihmisoikeusjärjestönä…:). Älkää luovuttako verta. Säästäkää meidät pommeilta. Potkaiskaa punaiset kerjuulippaat kumoon.

Kategoria: Totaalinen hulluus

Valitettavasti suuren yleisön keskuudessa kovin monet eivät ole perillä siitä, että SPR ei ole puolueeton, epäpoliittinen hyväntekeväisyysjärjestö. Suuri yleisö tuntuu autuaasti unohtaneen, että SPR mm. rupesi tekemään bisnestä somalien hyysäämisellä Suomessa 1990-luvun alussa.

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